Vicki: I find myself wondering why you consider Death masculine as in Mr. Death. I remember in Hebrew school learning about that mean, punitive bearded fellow Yaweh...Is that why? Somehow, I haven't attached a gender to death.
As a 50-year meditator I look at death as another experience to be present for. The more I practice the easier that becomes. I see no reason to end this earthly experience before it’s over, although I can rationalize making the choice to end it and save on medical bills. Suffering is unavoidable, how I deal with it is the choice I have.
With so much speculation about uncertainties rising in us about coming austerity, authoritarians, and climate collapse, this comes as a breath of fresh air, offering truly helpful speculation about the one certainty. Thank you!
Oh yes, the backdrop is eloquent... we are aging out of life, that's for sure, in a time of increasing chaos (if you aren't a billionaire male human). It's times like these that I sign off with "laissez les bon temps rouler"
So very glad and relieved to be talking about this so openly. I have no interest in remaining in this body if I can no longer take care of myself. The thought of being in a nursing home is my idea of hell so I want to have a plan for ending my life in place. To me, suicide is a noble act. It's my body, my life, and my choice!
Thank you, Vicki. I find few things are as intimate as death and a person's relationship with it. Your words inspire a tenderness, and bring about a light in an otherwise hard, cold, and obscure field of thought.
Additionally, I can imagine there being no end to our consciousness, at least until we're finally unified with the All Consciousness. But I wonder what your thoughts are.
I'm glad my article provoked so much reflection in you, dear friend. And the comments you are getting are wonderful to read. Thanks for all your contributions to this important conversation. I see we are not alone!
Beautiful, thought provoking essay, Vicki. Having been present for my mom’s death from ALS, and having been on a spiritual journey for 10+ years, I am a big proponent of MAID. Sadly, it was unavailable when my mom had to endure her suffering. As Alan Watts said, the goal is not to prolong life as long as possible. How devastating would it be to believe that this is all there is? It’s simply a rung in the ladder, a training ground. I see no reason to fear death.
Very interesting subject. I have thought about this often as I get older. I wonder what my father would have done had he the option. He spent the last 3 years of his life in a nursing home, after a stroke. Due to lack of circulation in his feet, he lost both of his legs, one above, one below, the knee because of heel sores that did not heal, caused by pressure laying on his back after the stroke and not being moved enough - before he went to the nursing home. I hadn’t moved to Maine yet, and no one adequately informed me of what was going on. The stroke also took his ability to speak - he knew what he wanted to say but the wrong words always came out, so eventually he gave up. Pneumonia finally took him. I know he had very little pleasure those 3 years. He refused to go anywhere, even just to sit outside, after a while. He lost his enjoyment of food, and eventually even the single beer he was occasionally allowed.
I would not want such a life. Because of my beliefs around death, the soul and spirit, reincarnation, and the experiences I’ve had with my “beloved dead”, in my belief system, the soul survives the loss of the body, and our spirit lives, always. I know my mother died and that the timing of it was her choice. I’m writing about this now in my Substack. She knew she would be more help to my sister (who was in a coma) on the other side. Whenever someone I admire dies, especially if I have worked with them personally, I think “another angel on the other side to help”. So for me, there is no actual “death”, rather a transformation. But the actual process of death - that is a hard one. And I want it to be as “easy” as possible. I do not fear death at all, but I do not want to be trapped in a useless or painful body, nor do I want to suffer. I want a choice of death, as I have and continue to have, choices while I’m living.
Hazel talked about her death as going virtual. I have inklings but no beliefs or experiences about continuity of consciousness of something that might identify as me or my soul. I can pay attention now that this cat is out of the bag for me. Yet my experience tells me that something emerges as the ego thins, or is knowable. Like the sun doesn't come out. The clouds go. For whatever that expanded, not ego-attached awareness is, death is not an issue or a minor one. I think this is as far as my honest perception goes. But I have someone dear to me in a nursing home and it's killing her spirit! Pain can overwhelm even the strongest psyche. So many Ins and outs of this topic. Thanks for your stories
I have felt passionate (and pro-self-agency) about the subject since 1982 when euthanasia was the 1982 national high school debate topic. This ends up being one of those highly moralized issues, full of should’s. It’s curious that the once religious-based mandate to not harm oneself has shifted to a one of obligation to fully and mindlessly utilize the insurance and medical business offerings to increase life-span (often at the expense of lack of health span). Both seem fear-based.
Thank you for resurrecting a conversation that is more ongoing than one-and-done.
well that's a mouthful! " It’s curious that the once religious-based mandate to not harm oneself has shifted to a one of obligation to fully and mindlessly utilize the insurance and medical business offerings to increase life-span (often at the expense of lack of health span)" And the fear is what keeps us in misery. What would it be like to consider one's own death... without fear - or spiritual bypass or denial, just presence. I plan to find out.
I have been staunchly pro-choice on many issues surrounding bodily autonomy—including the freedom (with consideration and forethought) to choose the time and method of “shuffling off this mortal coil”. As I said to my physician, I’m not afraid of dying exactly, but of the “process” and potential pain, tho even that is an element I ponder…perhaps the pain of transition (we can’t really ask newborns to tell of their birthing experience, but it is clearly intense) is part of what makes us “ready”. I told her that we don’t get all freaked out about NOT having been here “before”, so why should we about not being here “after”? I have had loved ones die of protracted, painful, illnesses and others tragically snatched suddenly in mere moments. I think, perhaps, some foresight/knowledge is helpful and healing…at least for the loved ones I have known. One of my most awful and beautiful experiences decades ago was holding my mother-in-law in a chest to chest embrace as the hospice nurse and I attended to her…her chin resting on my left shoulder, our heads joined ear-to-ear….and that is where she took her last breath—a very distinctive expiration…and my words of “safe journey” were the last she heard before I lay her back on the bed’s pillow, her life force gone from her body. Years later when a dear friend was very near the end, her family asked me to find out about natural burials and I was able to research and pass on information and locate a wicker coffin, as she wished to return to the earth in the least toxic state she could and have a “green” burial. I learned some interesting things about this process and its evolution, tho hardly anything currently mainstream. I even looked up sky burials…which they do not do in the USA (tho rare, there are unofficial actions individuals can take) & even where they are traditional the use of pesticides/herbicides have caused the carrion to be much less robust than they used to be and the practice seems to have abated some. As Joni Mitchell wrote, and CSN&Y famously sang: “We are stardust, we are golden, we are billion year old carbon”. Indeed we are…the great recycling! Will leave you with a link to a song I recently discovered: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cb6bbcJcys And, as I have long quipped, the only reason I want to live forever is to find out how it all turns out.☮️
Thank you for this long reply. Speaking about death is very charged, I've discovered, and all stories help us relax into one of the biggest facts of life. Being with your mother-in-law reminds me of having hospiced my cat, days upon days of her in my chest breathing together until that last shudder. One of the most beautiful, intimate experiences.
I am fortunate to have afforded several of my beloved doggers a peaceful passing—having the vet come to my home, a few friends at my side to support me through the process, holding and soothing my doggo as the process played out…very hard, yet comforting too. I have my “garden of dogs” ‘neath the willow tree in my backyard, each spot marked by a small statue. Being childfree, I have tried multiple times to have “that conversation” with my siblings (we are close in spirit, tho not in proximity), but they shy away from engaging….as I get older, I guess I need to try harder!
Vicki: I find myself wondering why you consider Death masculine as in Mr. Death. I remember in Hebrew school learning about that mean, punitive bearded fellow Yaweh...Is that why? Somehow, I haven't attached a gender to death.
It's from the Monty Python clip. They call the grim reaper at the door Mr. Death!
You killed it, Vicki! Monty was a hoot. Susan's on to something... Thanks for delving in to the unmentionable...
Hugs!
As a 50-year meditator I look at death as another experience to be present for. The more I practice the easier that becomes. I see no reason to end this earthly experience before it’s over, although I can rationalize making the choice to end it and save on medical bills. Suffering is unavoidable, how I deal with it is the choice I have.
I am humbled by how life has closed with my certainties, which are now quite dinged.
With so much speculation about uncertainties rising in us about coming austerity, authoritarians, and climate collapse, this comes as a breath of fresh air, offering truly helpful speculation about the one certainty. Thank you!
Oh yes, the backdrop is eloquent... we are aging out of life, that's for sure, in a time of increasing chaos (if you aren't a billionaire male human). It's times like these that I sign off with "laissez les bon temps rouler"
So very glad and relieved to be talking about this so openly. I have no interest in remaining in this body if I can no longer take care of myself. The thought of being in a nursing home is my idea of hell so I want to have a plan for ending my life in place. To me, suicide is a noble act. It's my body, my life, and my choice!
I do very much agree with you
Thank you, Vicki. I find few things are as intimate as death and a person's relationship with it. Your words inspire a tenderness, and bring about a light in an otherwise hard, cold, and obscure field of thought.
Additionally, I can imagine there being no end to our consciousness, at least until we're finally unified with the All Consciousness. But I wonder what your thoughts are.
I love you equating intimacy with death. So much to ponder there
I'm glad my article provoked so much reflection in you, dear friend. And the comments you are getting are wonderful to read. Thanks for all your contributions to this important conversation. I see we are not alone!
Beautiful, thought provoking essay, Vicki. Having been present for my mom’s death from ALS, and having been on a spiritual journey for 10+ years, I am a big proponent of MAID. Sadly, it was unavailable when my mom had to endure her suffering. As Alan Watts said, the goal is not to prolong life as long as possible. How devastating would it be to believe that this is all there is? It’s simply a rung in the ladder, a training ground. I see no reason to fear death.
Soaking in every word
I’m reading A Life of Meaning by James Hollis. It has some excellent chapters on aging and death.
Very interesting subject. I have thought about this often as I get older. I wonder what my father would have done had he the option. He spent the last 3 years of his life in a nursing home, after a stroke. Due to lack of circulation in his feet, he lost both of his legs, one above, one below, the knee because of heel sores that did not heal, caused by pressure laying on his back after the stroke and not being moved enough - before he went to the nursing home. I hadn’t moved to Maine yet, and no one adequately informed me of what was going on. The stroke also took his ability to speak - he knew what he wanted to say but the wrong words always came out, so eventually he gave up. Pneumonia finally took him. I know he had very little pleasure those 3 years. He refused to go anywhere, even just to sit outside, after a while. He lost his enjoyment of food, and eventually even the single beer he was occasionally allowed.
I would not want such a life. Because of my beliefs around death, the soul and spirit, reincarnation, and the experiences I’ve had with my “beloved dead”, in my belief system, the soul survives the loss of the body, and our spirit lives, always. I know my mother died and that the timing of it was her choice. I’m writing about this now in my Substack. She knew she would be more help to my sister (who was in a coma) on the other side. Whenever someone I admire dies, especially if I have worked with them personally, I think “another angel on the other side to help”. So for me, there is no actual “death”, rather a transformation. But the actual process of death - that is a hard one. And I want it to be as “easy” as possible. I do not fear death at all, but I do not want to be trapped in a useless or painful body, nor do I want to suffer. I want a choice of death, as I have and continue to have, choices while I’m living.
Hazel talked about her death as going virtual. I have inklings but no beliefs or experiences about continuity of consciousness of something that might identify as me or my soul. I can pay attention now that this cat is out of the bag for me. Yet my experience tells me that something emerges as the ego thins, or is knowable. Like the sun doesn't come out. The clouds go. For whatever that expanded, not ego-attached awareness is, death is not an issue or a minor one. I think this is as far as my honest perception goes. But I have someone dear to me in a nursing home and it's killing her spirit! Pain can overwhelm even the strongest psyche. So many Ins and outs of this topic. Thanks for your stories
I have felt passionate (and pro-self-agency) about the subject since 1982 when euthanasia was the 1982 national high school debate topic. This ends up being one of those highly moralized issues, full of should’s. It’s curious that the once religious-based mandate to not harm oneself has shifted to a one of obligation to fully and mindlessly utilize the insurance and medical business offerings to increase life-span (often at the expense of lack of health span). Both seem fear-based.
Thank you for resurrecting a conversation that is more ongoing than one-and-done.
That is my plan as well!
well that's a mouthful! " It’s curious that the once religious-based mandate to not harm oneself has shifted to a one of obligation to fully and mindlessly utilize the insurance and medical business offerings to increase life-span (often at the expense of lack of health span)" And the fear is what keeps us in misery. What would it be like to consider one's own death... without fear - or spiritual bypass or denial, just presence. I plan to find out.
I have been staunchly pro-choice on many issues surrounding bodily autonomy—including the freedom (with consideration and forethought) to choose the time and method of “shuffling off this mortal coil”. As I said to my physician, I’m not afraid of dying exactly, but of the “process” and potential pain, tho even that is an element I ponder…perhaps the pain of transition (we can’t really ask newborns to tell of their birthing experience, but it is clearly intense) is part of what makes us “ready”. I told her that we don’t get all freaked out about NOT having been here “before”, so why should we about not being here “after”? I have had loved ones die of protracted, painful, illnesses and others tragically snatched suddenly in mere moments. I think, perhaps, some foresight/knowledge is helpful and healing…at least for the loved ones I have known. One of my most awful and beautiful experiences decades ago was holding my mother-in-law in a chest to chest embrace as the hospice nurse and I attended to her…her chin resting on my left shoulder, our heads joined ear-to-ear….and that is where she took her last breath—a very distinctive expiration…and my words of “safe journey” were the last she heard before I lay her back on the bed’s pillow, her life force gone from her body. Years later when a dear friend was very near the end, her family asked me to find out about natural burials and I was able to research and pass on information and locate a wicker coffin, as she wished to return to the earth in the least toxic state she could and have a “green” burial. I learned some interesting things about this process and its evolution, tho hardly anything currently mainstream. I even looked up sky burials…which they do not do in the USA (tho rare, there are unofficial actions individuals can take) & even where they are traditional the use of pesticides/herbicides have caused the carrion to be much less robust than they used to be and the practice seems to have abated some. As Joni Mitchell wrote, and CSN&Y famously sang: “We are stardust, we are golden, we are billion year old carbon”. Indeed we are…the great recycling! Will leave you with a link to a song I recently discovered: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cb6bbcJcys And, as I have long quipped, the only reason I want to live forever is to find out how it all turns out.☮️
Thank you for this long reply. Speaking about death is very charged, I've discovered, and all stories help us relax into one of the biggest facts of life. Being with your mother-in-law reminds me of having hospiced my cat, days upon days of her in my chest breathing together until that last shudder. One of the most beautiful, intimate experiences.
I am fortunate to have afforded several of my beloved doggers a peaceful passing—having the vet come to my home, a few friends at my side to support me through the process, holding and soothing my doggo as the process played out…very hard, yet comforting too. I have my “garden of dogs” ‘neath the willow tree in my backyard, each spot marked by a small statue. Being childfree, I have tried multiple times to have “that conversation” with my siblings (we are close in spirit, tho not in proximity), but they shy away from engaging….as I get older, I guess I need to try harder!